Derived Absurdity wrote:Inherent Vice - full confession: I only watched this for the sex scene. It was good. The sex scene was good. I guess the rest was good, I don't know, I was on my phone the whole time.
Interesting thoughts. For whatever reason, I don't remember this one as well as Sunrise. Perhaps because I saw Sunset long after Sunrise and the latter had already left a big impression on me so I already knew what (basically) to expect. I don't disagree about the characters being "smarter" and "more mature" but I'm not sure that's an innate positive. It reminds me of a lot of musical artists that "mature" and become boring compared to their earlier stuff that was much more exciting and innovative even if it was rough around the edges. Now, I don't think Sunset was boring/dull by any means, and I definitely appreciate how it's going for an entirely different tone/feel because of how the characters have changed, but I also felt like it was missing that "spark" that I saw in the first film. I still thought it was superb though, and I agree with most of the good stuff you said about it... I guess I just feel like I've seen more films like it--meaning films about adults working out the problems of adult life--than films like Sunrise that are so freewheeling, naive, jubilant, and just bursting with energy and idealism about life and love; probably because most filmmakers are too old themselves to connect to that feeling of youth. Maybe I just saw it at the right time.Derived Absurdity wrote:Before Sunset - I liked this one a lot more.
LOL, well, that explains a lot. I mean, I'm closer to the cynical/pessimistic type myself, but when it comes to films (or any dramatic art-form) I don't generally judge them for expressing different perspectives as long as I think they're doing it well. IOW, I don't think art should generally be an "I agree with the POV so it's good/I disagree with the POV so it's bad" kind of thing, especially because the best dramatic art tends to depict rather than judge (meaning: "this is who the characters are/what they think" rather than "this is what the author thinks"). That's why Shakespeare has survived as long as he has, because he was capable of non-judgmentally depicting such an incredible breadth and diversity of humanity while never (or rarely and, if so, obscurely) injecting his perspective.Derived Absurdity wrote:Oh yeah I kind of hate life and think optimism and idealism are stupid so movies that are bursting with energy and idealism and naivety and whatever kind of don't do much for me. You need some degree of cynicism and pessimism to connect with me 'cuz those are required in any honest reflection or appraisal of life, because it sucks. Before Sunset sort of had that, sort of, so it was better.
Honestly I'm not sure, since saying would require having a good historical understandings of what audiences expected and how they reacted to the judgement/depiction dichotomy in art. What I would say is that there was a fundamental change in popular aesthetic philosophy that started in Romanticism where art became primarily seen as the personal expression of artists rather than attempts at depicting people/reality as it was. MH Abrams called this difference "the mirror and the lamp" in his book on the subject; basically the idea is that a mirror reflects what is, while a lamp only illuminates what an individual points it at. If art becomes personal expression then it makes logical sense that part of that expression includes judgment. That also makes art easier to critique because judgment (especially of the philosophical and moral variety) comes naturally to people, much more so than more abstract aesthetic theories about intent, technique/style, narrative, tone, perspective, and whatnot.Raxivace wrote:Jimbo do you think there's more of a demand from audiences that art "judges" its characters these days?
This might be skewed from me spend too much time online but sometimes it seems like people want moralistic fables more than anything. It kind of reminds me of those that demand "likeable" main characters above all else.
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