Bah, I forgot to answer this earlier. Sorry. :(
Kuribo4 wrote:Is it maybe because, this event being so important to how Jin changes, they didn't want us to see it outside of the pov of his memory?
Maybe, it would just be weird when these other cutscenes in Torna that were subjective memories in the main game are shown "as they really happened", even when they're slightly different.
Like you could easily, say, make an implication that Lora's death didn't quite happen the way Jin remembers and do something there (Like maybe he's really glorified her in his memories or something). The DLC just never goes in that direction for whatever reason.
Also, somebody playing the dlc first (which Nintendo says you can do, I would disagree there, and Takahashi himself has the pretty crazy idea of playing it between chapters 7 and 8) would feel curiosity as to what exactly happened and find out later in the main game.
I've heard people say that Nintendo has said the DLC can be played first (I guess this is why it has its own separate, physical release), but that's just bollocks to me. I'm not even sure the DLC explains what Drivers and Blades are, let alone some stuff that would seem random without context- like Mythra having a giant robot in the final battle comes kind of out of nowhere in Torna.
I wouldn't play it between Chapters 7 and 8 either tbh. I think you would just lose continuity between managing the two parties.
I felt weird about it too. I'm sure they looked at all of Lora's scenes from the main game, where her awakening Jin is a crucial moment, so I guess they took that as a starting point for what to do with her. I see potential there, but I don't know how well integrated he was in Torna though. I see the "getting over your dark past" angle, but it was played fairly simple.
Yeah it's just...odd.
I do kind of like how you forget about the character for like ten hours of gametime before he shows up again at the very end, but he still feels a little irrelevant.
These points I don't agree with either. It was a little weird how combat was simplified, I thought I was missing something (the final boss needed some concentration though).
If you mean Malos then yeah I thought it was better, though they introduce a whole new mechanic for that anyways.
And Lora was good, but I didn't get that connection I got with Rex. He just has more time for us to get to know him. He isn't the most complex character, but I enjoyed him, and I think he is a good role model for anybody playing who might happen to be younger, as opposed to many edgy, assholey type characters who might be the protagonists of a game of this sort, just a genuinely good, but not perfect kid
Yeah when I was 12-13 Rex is the kind of character I would have wanted to be. Nice guy, cool sword, goes on adventures, hangs out with cute girls etc.
Hell, I still want to do that lol.
(I'm actually still leaning to Rex genuinely not getting the thing with Nia until maybe the end portions of the game, where they exchange some looks that say a lot, but that this is even debatable is interesting to me).
Yeah I go back and forth on that whole dream sequence. If its Rex's doubt about himself coming through the versions of the party he fights, that means Rex is in that weird grey area in regards to Nia's feelings (Remember this comes after Nia's failed love confession earlier that Rex seems
to misunderstand). If its the rest of the party's
(Partially repressed?) doubts about Rex though that makes the actual feelings being expressed make more sense and puts a bit of a darker (But not like, grimdark or anything) spin on the whole journey up until this point.
Looking at Klaus' explanation on YouTube again, it comes off as pretty vague (In the English version at least):
Rex: Huh? You guys...
Zeke: Why are we all here? I thought I was...
Klaus: I merely wished to examine the shape of your hearts.
Rex: That voice...! You're-!
Klaus: My name is Klaus. The Architect of this world. I have watched over you all this time. I have seen your thoughts. Your desires. The things you have achieved.
Rex: So you did that, just now?
Klaus: Yes. Those were not your present forms, but alternate possibilities. Your other selves that lie within. That's what I wanted to see.
Zeke: Our other selves? You mean we're all thinking stuff like that deep down? Was that how we really feel?
Nia: Then you saw it too?
Zeke: Looks like we were all shown the same kind of stuff. It creeped me out. What were you trying to prove?
Klaus: ...Those were the fears you harbor...
Zeke: I don't get it all!
Dromarch: What was your purpose in showing us this? Those were not pleasant visions to behold.
Klaus: My only purpose...was to find out...how mankind has changed...and where it is headed.
Morag: And were you disappointed?
Klaus: No... As you stand before me now... That is who you are. That is enough.
Afterwards they start going on about Elysium.
It's a bizarre bit of dialogue, especially transcribed like this. Klaus' use of terms like "alternate possibilities" seems to suggest the dreams aren't related at all, but saying "other selves that lie within" does. Klaus doesn't actually disagree with what Zeke says, but its never made clear that everyone saw the same
visions either. Zeke says "same kind of stuff", but that's a pretty ambiguous phrase in its own right...but Nia says "it". You saw "it" too.
Idk. Xenoblade 2, man.
And from a more "serious", story angle analysis, I think Rex works so well (as opposed to Shulk) because there were so many characters unlike him, all anime as hell, but with pretty realistic anxieties, being bitter about life, and it was fun and even sort of funny seeing this positive shonen guy telling them they're wrong (and he's right obviously, though I liked how at one point he also doubts himself). Especially liked that at the climax of all this, it really felt genuine, with Jin (maybe to some extent) realizing he is wrong, or at least not completely right. With Lora, all this stuff just didn't flourish as much.
Yeah I generally agree with this.
Even for how "shounen" Rex is, the dude sure gets his ass beat a lot in the game. I remember a common complaint about Xenoblade 2 even being people getting annoyed that they'd defeat bosses only to see the party get beaten up in a cutscene right after.
I did defeat the final boss with Mythra lol. I felt this was her time.
Yeah I really reel like its more her story anyways.
Yeah, this aspect of it I liked. But I wish there was a little more freedom in it. Or less missions but really well made.
Idk, the green barrel one is the only sidequest that did really bug me.
Have you checked any of that out? I recommend it.
I have not but brb, buying swimsuit DLC.
Oh, and after completing Torna, the main game's cutscene gallery has a little, nice artwork section. Mostly stuff by Masatsugu Saito, the main character designer, but also one by Kunihiko Tanaka (the traditional Xeno designer).
Oh I think I missed that, I'll have to go look for it.
Edit: Btw, apparently at some point the Monolith Soft twitter said Jin is the protagonist of Torna, though the dlc really makes it seem like she was...I think, since she is the first you control. Though Jin got skme spotlight too.
I mean I can see that in the prologue and ending bits, but there is a whole of game in between that where Jin isn't really the focus.
"[Cinema] is a labyrinth with a treacherous resemblance to reality." - Andrew Sarris