Damon Lindelof's Watchmen

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Raxivace
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Damon Lindelof's Watchmen

Postby Raxivace » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:50 am

Anyone else going to be checking out the premiere on Sunday?

I feel hesitant about getting sucked into another Lindelof show only to feel disappointed in the end, but even when he's terrible I still can't help but be fascinated by whatever he's is doing. That he's also working with something as beloved as Watchmen has me curious too, especially if he actually does try and tackle new ideas instead of reiterating themes from Lost and The Leftovers (The latter of which already of which kind of repeated ideas from Lost).

Hopefully this new show won't be a disaster?
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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #1

Postby Faustus5 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:11 pm

Raxivace wrote:Anyone else going to be checking out the premiere on Sunday?

I feel hesitant about getting sucked into another Lindelof show only to feel disappointed in the end, but even when he's terrible I still can't help but be fascinated by whatever he's is doing. That he's also working with something as beloved as Watchmen has me curious too, especially if he actually does try and tackle new ideas instead of reiterating themes from Lost and The Leftovers (The latter of which already of which kind of repeated ideas from Lost).

Hopefully this new show won't be a disaster?


As a fan of the graphic novel (and even the movie), I will have no choice but to check it out. However, I'm always deeply suspicious of anything with this guy's name on it.

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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #2

Postby Faustus5 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:57 pm

Just finished the first episode. Wasn't what I expected but I was pleased with what I saw (and what I heard from the Trent Reznor/Atticus Ross score).

The episode had something problematic which I hope is addressed later, in that it is just absurd to think that our heroes would be the police when fighting against a wide spread white supremacist movement. That ignores the fact that traditionally, those inclined towards the law enforcement line of work tend to have sympathies towards those types. We'll see.

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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #3

Postby Raxivace » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:21 pm

Yeah I wondered about that too, though I'm sure the show is going somewhere with it considering the parallel between the Bass Reeves film in the first scene and the ending of the episode. I wouldn't be surprised if we find out if Don Johnson was himself a part of the Rorschach wannabe cult (The show even has a shootout at a cattle ranch, and Bass Reeves in the film accuses the sheriff of stealing cattle from the townspeople IIRC. An interesting echo)- he already seems to be set up as this series' version of the Comedian anyways, and we didn't find out the more troubling aspects about that guy until the comic book developed.

Still, while I'm intrigued about where this is all going I was a little underwhelmed considering the very positive reception this was getting from early screeners. The direction in particular seemed like kind of generic competent prestige TV directing to me. Not bad, but not zomg amazing either.
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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #4

Postby Raxivace » Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:36 am

So I thought episode 2 was pretty strong, and I think I'm liking episode 1 a lot more as time goes on.
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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #5

Postby Faustus5 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:46 am

It's hard for me to think objectively about the second episode because my feelings about it are contaminated by the fact that for the entire episode it kept halting and going into buffer mode, which got worse as the episode went on, becoming nearly unwatchable towards the end. I guess it was pretty good, but I need to see a solid story developing pretty soon.

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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #6

Postby Faustus5 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:30 pm

This show is getting better and better--episode 3 was fantastic, and so multi-layered. I've always loved Jean Smart from Fargo and Legion, and she stole every scene she was in.

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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #7

Postby Raxivace » Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:33 am

At first I was kind of disappointed to have the focus shift from Regina King to someone else like that, but yeah Jean Smart killed it. Great stuff.
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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #8

Postby Raxivace » Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:18 pm

Faustus have you been keeping up with this?

I gotta say after episode 6 I'm feeling a bit ambivalent about the show again.
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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #9

Postby Faustus5 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:03 pm

Raxivace wrote:Faustus have you been keeping up with this?

I gotta say after episode 6 I'm feeling a bit ambivalent about the show again.


Wow, I had exactly the opposite reaction--I loved where 5 and 6 have taken the show!

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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #10

Postby Raxivace » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:31 pm

I'm torn on 6 because as a flashback I liked it just fine, but as a surreal trippy dream episode it had the same problem certain episodes in The Leftovers did where it never really got crazy enough for me.

On top of that I've been rereading the original comic and the show just seems much less subtle in comparison, even if I still like the show overall.
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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #11

Postby Faustus5 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:54 pm

Raxivace wrote:I'm torn on 6 because as a flashback I liked it just fine, but as a surreal trippy dream episode it had the same problem certain episodes in The Leftovers did where it never really got crazy enough for me.


They could have done it as a flashback, but I suspect it is going to end up being important that her character learned about the grandfather's history for upcoming story shenanigans, so they decided to have her get the information via a strange, trippy route.

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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #12

Postby Raxivace » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:16 am

Yeah that's why they didn't make it just a pure flashback, but if they were going to make it a trippy surreal thing I just wish it was actually trippy and surreal instead of the kind of plain thing we got.

It just feels like a half-measure to me.
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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #13

Postby Raxivace » Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:08 am

I think Ep 7 takes the cake as the single dumbest twist Lindelof has ever done.
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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #14

Postby Raxivace » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:56 am

Cooling down a bit, its maybe not the dumbest since structurally at least I think it comes together better than most of Lost's major twists do.

But man the core idea of "lol Dr. Manhattan was in blackface this whole time" itself is just really stupid and schlocky on a gut level to me.
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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #15

Postby Faustus5 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:31 pm

I didn't mind it much, but I need an explanation for why he would feel he needed to hide himself in someone's body/mind. He's all powerful and this makes no sense.

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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #16

Postby Raxivace » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:28 am

YMMV on much sense the explanation we get makes, though dramatically I didn't find it satisfying.

Also, the big reveal here has me mad. Seriously we're going back into the Locke/Richard compass scene predestination paradox well to explain the fucking inciting incident of this whole show with Crawford's death? Fucking really?

Man, I was really into the show I thought this started as but man it has gotten really silly.
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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #17

Postby Raxivace » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:48 am

Raxivace wrote:Especially if he actually does try and tackle new ideas instead of reiterating themes from Lost
Lol fuck you past Raxivace.
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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #18

Postby Faustus5 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:08 pm

Raxivace wrote:YMMV on much sense the explanation we get makes, though dramatically I didn't find it satisfying.

Also, the big reveal here has me mad. Seriously we're going back into the Locke/Richard compass scene predestination paradox well to explain the fucking inciting incident of this whole show with Crawford's death? Fucking really?

Man, I was really into the show I thought this started as but man it has gotten really silly.


I still liked it.

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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #19

Postby Raxivace » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:41 am

Well I'm glad you liked it at least. I hope the finale pulls it together but my expectations are pretty low at this point.
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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #20

Postby Raxivace » Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:57 am

Yeah this probably isn't a surprise but that finale fell pretty flat for me.

Oh well.
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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #21

Postby Derived Absurdity » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:36 pm

Man, this thread was an emotional rollercoaster.

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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #22

Postby Raxivace » Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:03 am

Derived Absurdity wrote:Man, this thread was an emotional rollercoaster.
Yeah I don't actually get legit irked that often by shows or movies, but something about Lindelof missing the mark always brings it out in me.

It's especially prevalent here because I legit liked episodes 1-5 and thought 6 was alright, but 7-9 just fell off a cliff hard and fast for me.
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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #23

Postby Faustus5 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:47 pm

Raxivace wrote:Yeah this probably isn't a surprise but that finale fell pretty flat for me.

Oh well.


I don't think it's as great as the general critical reaction seems to indicate, but I thought overall that the writing on the show was fantastic. They weaved clues and foreshadowing all throughout the episodes to support the direction it eventually went in, which is going to reward a re-watch.

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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #24

Postby Raxivace » Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:13 am

They foreshadowed plot developments and such, yeah, though the plot developments themselves (Mainly thinking of Manhattan here) I think derail the undercooked themes of racism and the police so Lindelof could rehash his "lol what if a modern person became God/Jesus" obsession from Lost and The Leftovers seasons 2/3. Hell most of the plot developments from episodes 7-9 seem like they were rehashed specifically from Lost's endgame (Like he basically rewrites Manhattan into Jacob from Lost, down to transferring his powers through innocuous food items!), but retooled to fit the Watchmen universe. I thought those plot developments were shaky as hell to begin with on Lost, and they're just as shaky here in addition to being repetitive.

This is to say nothing of how on basic character level how characters like Trieu remain really undeveloped, or how characters like Veidt and Hooded Justice aren't exactly congruous with their counterparts in the comic (Making Hooded Justice black is a great idea, however as written he doesn't exactly fit with the misogynistic and fascistic bent of the character that Moore wrote. Like I have no idea how to square the guy that seems to get turned on from beating the shit out of the Comedian with "lol you can't heal a wound with a mask on" guy from episode 9. Hell I don't think the episode 9 guy even really fits the guy from episodes 1-8!). Honestly I think Angela comes out kind of underwritten too- like why does she even fall in love with Manhattan?

Overall I think this show has a lot of cool ideas but really, really falls short not only from the original comic, but from what its own premises suggest.
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Re: Damon Lindelof's Watchmen   Reply #25

Postby Faustus5 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:15 am

You make some very good points there, Raxivace. My opinion of the show just diminished!


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